Curse

SOT · Jun 17, 2005, 07:55 AM // 07:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Madan

The server instancing that you experience on quests or missions means you rarely meet people outside your own team of friends. There's definitely a social component missing as a result. There's very little role playing and community.

What you really left out here is this:

What it really means is you miss out on all the ganking from uber elite gamers who spend real world money to ensure they have more powerful gear than you, who power level for 19 hours a day then roam the maps killing people with abandon and ruining the game for not as skilled, or as equipped gamers.

All I will say in response to the rest of your carbon copy complaint about this game is: The number of players speaks about the games wonderful design and playability. The number of players doing things daily speaks more than a list of complaints. The number of us who take the good with the bad and enjoy ourselves, well, that legion vast? We outshout you and others who say the same things.

I am done here. Back to the game I love

Shadow_Avenger · Jun 17, 2005, 09:14 AM // 09:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Madan

And here I thought that opinions couldn't be proven wrong. That everyone, like a nose, had one.

Thanks, btw. Maybe a mod can just lock this thread. This is by far the most condescending forum of the big three GW forums I've seen.

Wow.

You are probably right there, Have browsed a few of the others, and this place has the largest freedom of speech quota out of them all. Good and Bad thing.
Good it allows for more varied posts.
Bad as it is fully of Flame Wars, and idiotic posts where people have not read what has been written, but assume and post, often posts are nit picks rather than genuine replies.
I myself have reduced my posting, and to be honest, I flick though posts and simply ignor the majority as they are just bitching, and it is often about something that has been posted elsewhere.
On forums there wil always be bitching, Fanboys, Elitest, the ignorant and the genuine posters with valid points.
Alas the more Flame posts there are, the less the genuine posters with valid points post as it is simply not a viable place to have a decent discusion.

This resonse should probably go in the site feedback section, but Madan has a valid point that I am backing up.

Schorny · Jun 17, 2005, 09:32 AM // 09:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Madan

More story. Bigger and better effects on spells. More variety on spell effects.
A more "forgiving" economy with lower costs. More variety in armor and equipment.

You simple must love this game. All you complain about is neat graphic effects.

Perth68 · Jun 17, 2005, 11:11 AM // 11:11

well my friend dis-liked the game because he also found it terribly repetitive. For whatever reason I don't maybe its beacause I really like the graphics or just some fantasy junkie but I find the game quite enjoyable and don't remind repition as long as long as I feel as I am getting somewhere.

On a profession to profession basis the game isnt balanced at all.But it isn't (at least I dont think it is) designed like that, it has a good group balance to it where everyone can play an important role in a group, its more of a group based game and I really like it that way and don't think it should change.

My biggest gripes with the game are the storyline and the community.

The storyline I never really felt engaged in, your character is mostly quiet and not interactive, everything is based on a group and if you are using public groups its always changing beyond that the npc arnt really the memorable, and the general storyline itself i just dont find that enthralling.Not to say its terrible they're some nice points, which I won't mention, and its bad "hey looks its the horn that could save us all just randomly lying here at the end of this mission, my are we lucky" :P *refering to stormcaller*

The community I am a bit fed up with. Public games are hard to get going, I spend most of my time trying to arrange them and then someone takes a quest or drops mid game, or pulls really badly and then its back to square one. Also I play a popular but somewhat uneccary class (each class is balanced and can play a role in a group but people always prefer other classes over others, a 3rd monk is always accepted but a third ranger and people start quiting). It just gets annoying just how all the partying works and how anti-noobies everyone is. Even though its like that in all games I find it particularly annoying in this game. PvP is along these same lines and I would say its less a problem with the game then it is with the players, why can't pre-built cut it? because you're instantly labeled noob when they find out and kicked. Items in this game arnt much an issue which is a major thing I love about the game sure sup. Runes are hard to find but since its only a 3+ bonus its no big deal and it gets rid of some health too. Armor is fairly good to start with on pvp characters and on rpg characters you're expexted to ascend before you really start pvping.

The game does take a long time to get through, which is nice in someways and bad in others. Not the game you can pick up instantly and be right in pvp battles in HoH but it has some room in which to spread out and explore too. I personally would like it if it was a little faster though.

The economy dosent concern me as much, they're ways to get money and ways not to. But since the items are pretty close in ability I find that it dosent matter that much.

Nokomis · Jun 17, 2005, 02:06 PM // 14:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by ManadartheHealer

If you haven't been hardly anywhere quit complaining about the scenery. If you had been patient, it would have gotten better.

I don't agree with this. Why is it okay for a game to have spots early on where the gameplay is repetitive and the scenery is boring? A great game is compelling throughout the gaming experience, not pretty good once you have invested several hours into the game. I hear a lot of experienced players saying that GW gets better after this or after that. But why can't it be good ALL THE WAY THROUGH? Sorry, but that is what is required of a stellar game.

--Nokomis

Loviatar · Jun 17, 2005, 02:28 PM // 14:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Madan

I never said I've been everywhere. Where did I say that I had?

all i am saying is that since you never got past the start of the game you have zero qualifications to judge the game

the only thing you are qualified to state is that *i didnt like the start of the game and i am judging it on that small beginning sample*

Talesin Darkbriar · Jun 17, 2005, 05:30 PM // 17:30

Why hello Madan!

Apologies for not responding sooner; I came back to browse the forums this morning and . . . oh dear! My apologies for throwing you into such a hissy fit!

If I misquoted you or took you out of context, I am truly sorry. I can only interpret what you have written in the context of how it appears you have scribed it. Obviously a mistake has been made!

However, you have done me the same disservice regarding your fiery retort.
I was merely expressing a rebuttal of some of the more outrageous and unfortunately erroneous claims you made regarding your extremely limited experience in the game.
If I were to post anything similar, I should hope the community would call me on it.

I am currently at Abbadon's in the Ring of Fire Island chain. Please do correct me if I am wrong, but I believe that is a short bit farther than the Northern Wall gate? Actually, it's off the main continent...

Relative playing skill and prior game experience aside, (Sims2? I wouldn't have volunteered that hehee...) I "may" be a tad more qualified to make some rash sweeping statements regarding the overall game than you my dear?
The again, perhaps not. Some people spend their entire lives in study and research, others unlock the mysteries of the universe from reading a bubblegum wrapper...

Guild Wars has a design device built in that works with malicious efficiency:
It limits players to zones of their highest level of competence.
Savor that statement for a moment. Reread it again...carefully. Don't take me out of context please. Now consider your current situation.
Amen.

That alone makes the game worth playing to me. It may also explain why after however many weeks you care to profess you've been playing, you're still looking for a clue how to exit the wastelands of Old Ascalon.

I wish to help!
Carefully reading through your studious, thoughtful, and masterfully written posts here, may I propose the following suggestions?

1.) Abandon your mesmer. I agree, they do have the coolest costumes of the classes, but they also require the most skill to play well. Save it for later - after you have staggered, wandered, and otherwise bumbled through the game once.

2.) Take up your Warrior/Monk character. They are by far the easiest, most self-sufficient combination to play. True, they are the premier choice for the swarms of "nooblings" and their ilk, but the trick is to see what the game is about first, then come back and conquer it using skill and artful play second.

3.) Look me up! All riposting and parrying aside, I have nothing personal against you or anyone here for that matter. I'd be happy to join you any evening and assist with any adventure.

I look forward to your next stirring and exciting review!
Respectfully yours - because I respect your right to voice your opinion dear,

Talesin

Forboding Angel · Jun 17, 2005, 06:55 PM // 18:55

@ original poster

The entire article sounds like it was written by a noob

Also, kinda bad choice using mesmer for your first char, they are a bitch to learn, and I'm assuming that you spent most of the game cussing that it wasn't like wow or nwn or eq, so you kept yourself from having any fun.

Did you even make it to lions arch?

BTW hint, do the missions and you can finish the game in prolly about 20 hours or less. Keep in mind that if you do nothing but the missions you will miss other stuff along the way.

Forboding Angel · Jun 17, 2005, 07:02 PM // 19:02

madan, Add Forboding Angel to your friends list. After reading the topic a bit more I feel sorry for you lol. You really havn't seen anything.

Add me to friends list and message me when I'm online and I'll drop whatever I'm doing and help you out. Would be my pleasure.

Talesin Darkbriar · Jun 17, 2005, 09:14 PM // 21:14

Aye, she just needs some TLC is all. I'm available too.

funbun · Jun 17, 2005, 10:58 PM // 22:58

Quote:

Huh? In short, the economy in the game is painfully broken. Money comes slowly and only to those that level grind and when you finally do gain enough to buy dye and new items, you realize that your old junk is worthless.

It's Called Free Trade:
Isn't that how real life is? Money is rare, that's why it's so valuable. Here is a lesson in simple econimics: If they make money drops bigger and/or more frequent that would be the same as the governement printing more money. The result? INFLATION. Everything would cost much more because the currecy is worthless. That 1,000g sword you're talking about would cost 10,000g and you would still be here complaining aboiut the broken trade system.

What you want is a socialistic trade system where everything is given to you. If you don't have the inventivnes to make up a GW business of somkind then you need to play another game.

The tradesystem is fine just the way it is because is minics true free trade, open market.

Why would you sell your weapons to NPC anyway. Sell them to other players.
Isn't making money in real life a grind?

ManadartheHealer · Jun 17, 2005, 11:02 PM // 23:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by funbun

What you want is a socialistic trade system where everything is given to you.

What you are talking about wouldn't be a trade system; if it's socialist, it can be called an economic system. Only capitalism has a trade system because it is a free market economy.

Also, in theory it's not "just given" to you. You would have to maintain a job of some kind.

Adraeus · Jun 17, 2005, 11:34 PM // 23:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Madan

And here I thought that opinions couldn't be proven wrong. That everyone, like a nose, had one.

Opinions that makes claims about facts can be proven incorrect just like any claim of truth (e.g., "Elementalists are the greatest profession ever!") Opinions that contain no truth value, however, cannot logically be proven incorrect (e.g., "I like the Elementalist profession.") A "truth" must be logically falsifiable in order to be properly attributed any degree of correctness.

Phaedrus · Jun 17, 2005, 11:50 PM // 23:50

So, I've been trying to figure out why I disagree with you.

Don't get me wrong, I already posted some information, thanked you for your review...and yet, it seems like I agree with any point I didn't address.

The more I thought about it, I realized: it's because I started playing Guild Wars during the PWE. I remember starting in Lion's Arch, scrambling to discover new towns, new skill traders, trying my hand at the rare skill charm trader lottery. By the time the Ascalon content was added, it was actually fresh and new...not so much stuffy and spirit-breaking. Travelling to the Shiverpeaks was really neat, and I still hadn't seen half the world before retail came out.

I think, to give an example, seeing the evolution of Guild Wars has kept many of us loyal. I remember the skill charm system and I remember understanding why they removed it. I remember watching them polish the interface, add new armor, change the way weapons worked, tweak and balance skills...it was wonderful. Seeing how much work has gone into the game and how far it has evolved has given many of us a bias about its systems and basic truths.

Seeing the areas added has given us a greater appreciation of the game world in a broader sense, seeing the response times to concerns, bugs, and problems has only bolstered loyalty among the Guild Wars fans.

That doesn't make any of your observations or opinions any less valid, and this post isn't to try and attack either of those. I just hope it sheds a little light on why many Guild Wars players are very defensive.

[ ]

nechronius · Jun 18, 2005, 12:07 AM // 00:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nokomis

I don't agree with this. Why is it okay for a game to have spots early on where the gameplay is repetitive and the scenery is boring? A great game is compelling throughout the gaming experience, not pretty good once you have invested several hours into the game. I hear a lot of experienced players saying that GW gets better after this or after that. But why can't it be good ALL THE WAY THROUGH? Sorry, but that is what is required of a stellar game.

--Nokomis

Umm, frankly I LIKED the charred, burned look of old ascalon. And then I got to the Shiverpeaks and liked the snowy mountain terrain. And then to Kryta's lush greenery. etc etc.

Bottom line is that people are going to spend a few hours in each location for a certain amount of Time. Out of necessity you will spend more Time in post-sear Ascalon than anywhere else, but it's certainly possible to rush past it if you are determined to do so. Just do the missions fast and get to Yak's Bend. Then you can always go back and do "cleanup" quests here and there.

Although it did look odd when my w/mo20 joined a party of people at the Northern Wall, just for that darn bonus.

funbun · Jun 18, 2005, 02:19 AM // 02:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by ManadartheHealer

Also, in theory it's not "just given" to you. You would have to maintain a job of some kind.

You're getting caught up in sematics and you're not saying anything of substance. But I'll play along.

Yes, you maintain a job in a socialist society. But the job is provided to by the government. In a socialistic society the government serves the nanny. The govenrment feels the people are incapable of takiing care of themselves. In a capitalistic society the government gets out of the way and let's society take care of itself.

Capitalism fixes itself. Socialism doesn't.

So, yes a JOB IS GIVEN TO YOU! You don't have to get out there and bust your balls to find a job or start a business for yourself.

On another note, but slightly related, jobs aren't needed: a legitimate source of income is needed. A job is only one way to make money.

In GW the people complain about the economic system yet I have never had problems making money. There are plenty of ways to make money in GW that don't require insane grinding.

GW embraces capitalism. There is a way. Start some kind of enterprise. People offer me money many times because I'm an ascended monk. Also, monks have a hard time Ascended I can teach them how and I charge a fee for that. They happily pay and tip me generously.

In other words, I don't go out grind/farming for weapons, then try to sell them. That the slowest way to make money.

ManadartheHealer · Jun 18, 2005, 04:07 AM // 04:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by funbun

The govenrment feels the people are incapable of takiing care of themselves. In a capitalistic society the government gets out of the way and let's society take care of itself.

When you say capitalist, in this instance I assume you are speaking of laissez-faire capitalism. But, most countries do not use such a "hands off" approach to the economy; there are still rules and regulations

And, according to theory, socialism is based around creating equality for all workers, not being a "nanny"

Quote:

Originally Posted by funbun

Capitalism fixes itself. Socialism doesn't.

That is debatable. There have been a few capitalist economies to collapse in on themselves (Germany pre-war, etc.). When this happens, capitalism cannot fix itself. During the GReat Depression, FDR had to create programs to help the economy get back into gear. That is definitely not capitalism "fixing itself"

Guild wars does embrace capitalism, just not laissez-faire capitalism. That is why there are now rune traders. There are also material and rare material traders. These help regulate the economy.

Maiyn · Jun 18, 2005, 06:10 AM // 06:10

You know.. I guess all I can really say is that I totally respect your opinion.. and it took balls to post that all here of all places lol.

I really must disagree though. This game has just about everything I could've asked for ^^;

I must admit I HAVE NOT played WOW but I did play everquest and I found that to be disappointing as well.

I don't have as much time to be a gamer these days and I find this game to be great for that.

When I'm out of school and can afford to play monthly fee games I guess I'll have to get back to this thread.

All I can end with is cheers to Anet :P

(PS, the philosophical conversations near the end of this thread were quite an interesting read

)

Aranarth · Jun 18, 2005, 02:34 PM // 14:34

I was looking forward to this game being released for a long time. I don't agree with everything the original poster said, but I do feel let down by what the game is evolving into.

It's clear that the original poster has not fully experienced the game yet, and some of his points won't seem significant to most of us. He claims that monsters only drop 2-20g, and he talks about "not getting EQ for free" as if it's a bad thing.

What I think he should understand is that levelling up isn't the point of this game. Reaching 20 isn't "beating" Guild Wars - it's only passing the tutorial.

The disappointment for me is in their continued "fixes" to prevent farming. They say that farming is not what this game is about, so they make it harder and harder. I fail to see the logic here, and I don't understand why they can't see that this makes the problem worse. For the record, I am basically done with farming. I only need to unlock one more superior rune that I care to have, and my primary and secondary characters (monk and warrior) are complete. My problem is the direction the game is taking in general.

Farming is necessary in order to give yourself the tools to adapt in PvP, and they designed the game to be that way. You need the runes and you need the skills to adapt with. Someone who levels 3 characters to 20 and doesn't farm is not going to unlock a significant number of superior runes unless his luck is amazing. At this point, he will be forced to farm in order to prepare himself fully for PvP.

Each new patch makes this take longer and longer, and so it increases farming. If people feel the need to farm, that right there should tell them they made a mistake. How can they say that making it still harder to collect these items is the right thing to do for a game that is not about farming?

Loviatar · Jun 18, 2005, 02:43 PM // 14:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aranarth

Each new patch makes this take longer and longer, and so it increases farming. If people feel the need to farm, that right there should tell them they made a mistake. How can they say that making it still harder to collect these items is the right thing to do for a game that is not about farming?

they said they are taking steps to make ihe items available in game to make farming unnecessary.

they also said the fix would not be a oneshot fix but a long series of small steps

it is out less than 2 months now

if changes are coming too slow for you simply take a break with a book, a friend, or play another game for a month or so and then come back to see how much it has changed and if you like them or not